Quizzes vs. webforms

[gradecki]

I have a couple of jointly-provided meetings that are tough to manage for a number of reasons. The latest is a group that essentially has two tracks–a half-day for physicians and full day for nurses/allied health. They used to apply as two separate meetings, which was just silly since a lot of physicians attended the allied health meeting and most NPs and PAs would attend the morning of the allied health and then switch to the physicians’ meeting.

I convinced them to treat this as a single meeting with two tracks this year, and now I’m pulling my hair out over how to make the post-assessments work. We normally require completion of the post-test and an evaluation, before claiming credit, and base access to each object in the course outline on completion of the previous object. Because I can’t tell EthosCE that end users need to complete one or the other (and in some cases, both) to move to the evaluation, I’m at a loss.

I could just have both quizzes available in the outline and give instructions about who completes which one, but I can’t REQUIRE either quiz. Ezra suggested I do two courses-within-a-course (not really parent-child, just having two course objects that are courses) where the appropriate quiz, eval and credit claiming (and certificate) would be attached to each one, but for those attending half-and-half, this is problematic, and the crossover between the two is significant enough I really can’t make that work.

If I use a webform with conditionals, I can require people to answer the quiz questions that pertain to them and make access to the evaluation object dependent on completion of the webform, but then I don’t have automatic grading for a mandatory pass rate. I guess I could set up conditionals on each question that forces them to re-do the question until they get it right, but that would very labor-intensive, and while we’d have 100% pass rates for everyone we’d have no way to report out how many attempts it took for people to pass.

I’d love to either have a webform that allows for question components to be auto-graded, or a more configurable quiz setup where conditionals are allowed, to address this scenario. Frankly, we have a handful of other activities where this would come in handy, as well.

Does anyone else run into this problem, ever, or is it just me and my crazy world?

[DanielleNathan]

I JUST HAD THIS PROBLEM!

Basically we have an online “March Madness” event where people can participate in the various ‘regions’ aka topics in nephrology (yay kidney month!). People don’t have to participate in all, but we offered MOC so all users needed to submit post-test info in order to meet that requirement-- but how to only make them fill out the answers for the ones they participated in? There’s no conditionals in quizzes so that you only get graded on what you completed, or that you can note you didn’t compete in a place. I racked my brains-- asked a million questions and built and rebuilt this multiple times with different configurations.

This is what I ended up with:

Webform with conditionals that asked “did you participate in this region” and then the user selected yes or no. Yes brought up the questions no brought up the next "did you participate question.

There’s no way to then provide feedback so we did (as always provide anyway) a document that had all of the post-test questions/correct answers/rationale.

Not an ideal situation but we are making it work. EEEP!

[gradecki]

We considered doing a webform because of the conditionals, but because scoring is non-existent we really didn’t want to go down that road. We certainly aren’t going to manually score someone else’s stuff, much less our own!

We are opting to create two separate ‘bonus’ courses. The links to both will be sent out to attendees and they can opt to do one or both (or neither) depending on their level of involvement and/or interest. They’ll get an extra .25 credit for each course, we and the group hosting the meeting will get some data, and we’ll do a more self-reflection-based evaluation required for claiming credit immediately following the meeting.

This isn’t ideal, but it’s better than a no-scoring or manual-scoring scenario.

[gmartinez]

I run into similar scenarios. I have a course who’s requirements for nursing make the conference a bit complicated for us. The conference has a nursing session, though, that session is open to physicians and also awards MOC II credit. Attendees can either attend the conference, the conference and nursing session, or just the nursing session.

But ultimately I stick the the course within a course deal. One set for the main conference and another for the nursing session. Users don’t seem to do well with choosing what course objects to do once in a course no matter what kind of direction you provide, so as labor intensive as it is this has been the better solution in terms of making it easier for users. For us, anyway.

Hoping to get more flexibility in course outlines from Ethos though!

[pbooker]

Hello,

A couple of you mentioned a course within a course. Can you screenshot what that looks like? I believe I have a course that might benefit from that concept.

Thanks

[gmartinez]

The concept comes from adding a course object, to a course outline. So if you have your course, and then go into the outline, you can select “Course” from the “Select Object” list.

So here I just have part of an outline, you see the credit object, and then I placed a course object before the certificate object. That would be, a course within a course. If this was live, a user would claim credit and then proceed to see this second course. Your settings would then determine how the user interacts with it.

[christina.billings]

We have an annual course that has an optional journal club component that requires users to complete a post-test to receive the full credit. The journal supplements the course topics, but similar information is also presented during the course. Therefore, since everyone is exposed to the topics (in potentially varying depth), we have everyone complete the post-test and give ample attempts to pass. They still do not get the additional credit if they did not participate in the journal club. It would be nice (and we have requested before) to be able to require eligible users to complete the quiz but allow others to bypass the object and claim credit. It seems like your request here might also allow something like this to be feasible. Thanks!

[MarionTalbot]

I am running into this problem as well. We need to have course object access control based on user profile field (ie user type, profession).